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| Συνέντευξη
προς την Penny Spelling/ European Database |
16.
05. 2001 |
Anna Karamanou
1. Anna, can I ask how you first got involved in European politics?
I was elected to the European Parliament in February 1997 but I have
always been very much interested in what was going on in Europe. Since the
Greek accession in 1981, I have been working on various European groups. For
example, I was an expert working for the European Commission's Equal
Opportunities Unit. I was the national representative for Greece in two
networks: Women in Employment and Women in the Decision-making Process. So I
have been involved in European policy for the past 20 years. At a national
level I have also been very active in Equal Opportunities and Human Rights
issues.
But my first involvement in politics was as a student. I liked to influence
things and became an activist and got quite involved as a trade unionist. I saw
much unfairness and inequality, and I had a dream of changing the world, but it
was very difficult! In 1974 I joined the political party, PASOK, and I was also
very active in the trade union. So my political career began at the national
level but even as a child I had very cosmopolitan ideas and I always saw Greece
in a broader, more global context. I always enjoyed working in a multicultural
environment.
2. Have you encountered any difficulties in your political career?
When I first got involved in the 1970s, the situation was not very good
for women in politics. At that time, women's participation was not good in
Greece and even in local politics there were hardly any women to be found. I
was working in an environment that was hostile to women and I had to overcome
many barriers. However, the worst barriers were self-imposed: it was not easy
to be assertive. I have a family and I have been married twice and divorced
twice. After I got my second divorce I gained more self-confidence. Men are
used to getting help and support but they do not accept women who are in power.
It is very rare to find a husband who will be supportive to a woman. In Greece,
men and women have difficulty accepting women in power.
3. It sounds like you paid a high price.
Yes, but I found politics worthwhile and rewarding. I think women give a
lot and take little - and their contribution is never assessed. Most men behave
in a stereotypical way. They enjoy power. They are strong, tough, have few
sentiments and do not express feelings. Few men question this way of life. It's
hard for men but I haven't seen movement on their part. Maybe there has been
movement in Scandinavian countries. I think men there have realised the
benefits of women's qualities. The fact is, women are less violent. If we have
more involvement of women in the public sphere then we will have better policies.
Women bring new ideas and capabilities. They are less aggressive. They are
peace-makers, but they are rarely involved in foreign affairs or in peace
negotiations. Women have not had the chance to try doing things their way.
4. What contribution do you think women have made?
Well, women belong to different parties, of course, and they have to
follow the party line but women are more likely than men to support issues such
as peace, human rights, the environment and health. I was pleased when the
leader of the Socialist Group recently praised women for their contribution to
the drafting of the Charter on Fundamental Human Rights. Women have a special
contribution to make in this area and they also have a different perspective on
environmental issues. Last November we also quickly set up an all-women
delegation to Palestine and Israel. This was a cross-party initiative where we
were having discussions with various women and we found there was a consensus
between the Israeli and the Palestinian women. The problem is that women still
do not have power in these situations but we are beginning to have an
influence.
The situation is worse at the national level. My toughest experience was
working in the decision-making bodies of the trade unions where I found people
very hostile towards women. This attitude particularly touches women at the
higher education level and women in the public sphere.
5. Does your party have an Equal Opportunities policy?
Of all the parties in Greece, my party is the best - but putting it into
practice has not been easy. We have a 20 per cent quota for women on the
central committee but men hate quotas because this meant that some men had to
resign to make place for women. We are now preparing for the local elections in
October 2002 and Vasso Pappandreou introduced a new law that makes it
compulsory for one third of the list to be women. Of course, this does not mean
they will all get elected. We also have the parties saying that they cannot
find such a high number of women but, at the same time, 57 per cent of
university students in Greece are women. Examinations are held across the
country and when we have real equal opportunities women are better performers
than men, which is why we have more women in universities. But you know we see
the same problem at the local level where they say they cannot find women for
their seats. They think women are not capable. The result is that only 15 women
are mayors out of a total of more than 1000. And nobody thinks this is a
problem. Nobody. They think women in politics is not a priority. Here in the
European Parliament, they see women politicians, such as the Greek
commissioner, Anna Diamandopoulou, Vasso Pappandreou, and the Greek women
Europarliamentarians, and they cannot imagine how difficult it is for women in
Greece.
6. What impact do you think European Equal Opportunities Policy has had in
Greece?
European policy has helped Greek women a lot, especially concerning
changes in legislation. Greece now has progressive family law where women can
keep their maiden name. I kept my maiden name. I would have lost my identity. I
never used my first or my second husbands' names. When I divorced my first
husband, I gave my name to my daughter. The law allowed me to do that. The only
field where we are far behind is regarding women's participation in political
life. I think this will only change if we introduce legislation. Look at
France. A year ago it changed the law and introduced a quota of 50/50 for all
political positions. You cannot stay at home and say you don't like this and
that. You have to get involved and try to change it from within. Otherwise, it
is not possible to change anything. I understand why women under-estimate
themselves. I understand why they do not get involved. But women have to do something
collectively and as individuals. We have to act individually within our
families and with our partners. In public life, we have to take the positions
that belong to us, to have half the power. Not only because this is fair, but
because we can make a real contribution to creating a less violent world, to
creating peace. Women want a more balanced world and greater equality between
people and countries but they do not have the power to achieve this. Men have
the power but their value systems are different.
7. Do you notice discrimination in European policy-making?
To tell you the truth, no. I haven't noticed any direct discrimination.
I feel comfortable working in the European Parliament. If I search . . . I feel
the Women's Rights Committee is under-estimated and under-valued by my male
colleagues. We have had staff shortages and I feel the Parliament does not take
as much care as it does with other committees. Men have the upper hand in how
we deal with foreign policy and defence matters but step by step women are
gaining more and more power. Women's values and ways of thinking are beginning
to influence things. Unfortunately we still have to play the game by men's
rules and that is a struggle. But things are getting better.
8. How is working in the European Parliament different to politics at
national level?
I like working in the European Parliament as I have always preferred
working with people from different cultures. National politics, especially in
Greece, is connected to the electorate. Within the party there is a lot of
competition between candidates, which does not favour women. The way elections
are conducted means there is a lot of competition among people in the same
party. They run personal campaigns and spend money to promote themselves. This
favours people with money. Usually women do not have enough money to run, which
is one reason why they don't enter politics. Nor do they have the necessary
connections, for example with the media. European elections are easier. There
is a national list and the party decides who should represent them. Therefore
you do not have to spend money, etc.
9. Is there a final word you would like to say?
I would like to make a plea for solidarity. Women in decision-making
positions often have to face a hostile environment from men and from women, and
they often get little support. We must remember that if women go higher, we all
go higher, so we should work together for this.